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Azov was founded by nazis, western media and ukrainian reports that all the nazis have magically dissapeared are exagerated for obvious reasons.
This being said, there does seem to be some truth to them being less virulently fascist once they were integrated into the regular army, and maybe after so many of the original members died. The lack of anti-semitism for example, is telling. Ukrainian (orthodox) jews and members of Azov fight alongside each other.
I think the branding stuck because they were undisputably heroic and fighting Russia, and also as a fuck you to the Russians. Also, still plenty of nazis.
We have similar issues in Belgium, where flemish nationalists make excuses for collaborationists. During the first and second world war, the Germans exploited long held (and often legitimate) grievances held by Dutch speaking Belgians. So for example, they opened the first Dutch/Flemish speaking university in Belgium and offered Flanders a high degree of autonomy. During WW1 the Belgian army was also very francophone, which IRC caused some dutch speaking soldiers issues, this was exagerated by flemish nationalist and IRC german propaganda. The end result was that hardcore nationalists ended up collaborating with the Germans even during the second world war. After the war the flemish movement made excuses for them, suggesting they weren’t overwhelmingly true believers.
Something similar happened in Ireland. The blue shirts were a paramilitary organisation in the Irish free state which was opposed against the IRA. They provided physical protection to political groups which would go on to form Fine Gael, what is now a mainstream and moderate party. There’s also a debate about the blue shirts being fascists. What is true that many went on to fight alongside Franco in the Spanish Civil War and that they did the whole hand in the air thing. Their leader O’Duffy was also fascist, admired Mussolini, attended an international Fascist conference in 1934, but then perhaps crucially used the opportunity to argue against anti-semitism.
TLDR: it’s complicated.
The greatest glory to a fascist is to die a heroic death in a battle. It’s a literal death cult.
Be it in battle, self inflicted, or a freak accident, the only good
nazifascist is a deadnazifascist.
The day the Jews stop being persecuted will be the day we’re all dead
As long as Azov kills Ruskie invaders I don’t care.
Once the war is over they can deal with internal politics.
Azov = Nazi is Kremlin propaganda even if it was true. I’ve heard enough that says Azov purged their extremists before the war. I’ve seen Nazi tattoos on Wagner’s leader not so much in Azovs pictures.
Whatever the case Zelenesky is a Jew. I’ll trust his judgement on how to treat Azov. I’m not there and I don’t know any better and I don’t know what’s real and what’s propaganda .
In the meantime I won’t put Azov on a pedestal but will say glory to the UAF and territorial defense. Death to the invaders.
In April Rusich posted a video on its Telegram channel of a Ukrainian prisoner being beheaded with a knife. Its leaders have also filmed themselves killing puppies.
they fucking know they’re the bad guys, ugh
I hope the rest of their lives are short and miserable
Hilarious that there are still people accusing the Ukrainians of being neo-Nazis.
Some ukranians are neo-nazis, also some in the military. Just like in Russia.
There are neo-Nazis in Ukraine, just as there are in Canada, France, the US, or Australia. But the entire Putin regime is authoritarian, reactionary, genocidal, and thoroughly corrupt — which we could sum up by saying “fascist”.
UK as well, fascists have been spouting bullshit here for decades.
Not quite like though, right?
The Russia battalions are explicitly ideologically neo-Nazis and are embraced by Russia and Putin. They don’t mind neo-Nazis; in fact they positively like them! (Which makes the “de-Nazification” casus belli even sillier but that’s neither here nor there.)
The Ukrainian neo-Nazis have never been the majority of their battalion, the battalion has never explicitly been neo-Nazi, the state and the battalion itself have repeatedly rejected Nazism, and reports now are fairly conflicting about how many neo-Nazis remain in its ranks.
So pretty different overall.
Neo-nazis are a curse that is all over the world in many countries. In fact, I challenge Russia to invade the US to get rid of ours. Hell, by their logic, they should be invading much the world. Even themselves?
Now, back to relevancy with additional information: The Azov Brigade in Ukraine did have a high concentration of far right-wing and neo-nazis. (They utilize symbols that are associated with the German SS; some are no longer used but you will still see them from time to time) However, they have been a pain in the ass for Russia since the Donbass conflicts started which is nice. As part of a deal with Ukraine, the Azovs ultimately down-sized and began to reject much of the extremest ideology to become a more formalized political group in Ukraine. That didn’t stop Russia from spreading more propaganda though. Russia needed to degrade support for the Azov group because they were quite effective in battle and needed to fight them in any way possible. (More info: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Azov_Brigade)
Quick note: Russia still spreads fake videos of the Azov Brigade in formation giving Nazi salutes and such. I am not saying that doesn’t happen still, but most of the videos you find “proving” Ukraine is still Nazi are fake. Nazis are still going to Nazi, unfortunately.
Some things Nazis did:
- Invading other countries
- Genocide
- Putting dissenters in prison camps
- Murdering party members who don’t fall 100% in line
- Murdering gay and trans people
- Fake elections rigged to “elect” a dictator
Curiously, this looks like things the Putin regime does, too.
Yep. Propaganda is a bitch. It’s super easy to accuse others of things that you do as a distraction for the general population and tends to be popular in right-wing groups.
Good points! Even if all of Russia’s propaganda is true though, it still doesn’t change the fact that they themselves have and are enthusiastically embracing their own neo-Nazis. So invading another country to de-Nazify it is a pretty ridiculous claim. Especially since they’re using Nazis to do it.
Speaking of Russian Nazis, Dimitri Utkin (the Wagner dude) was supposedly part of that bunch.
Has this picture been validated as authentic yet? (Note the tattoos):
Sure. I did not mean to say the extend of them is equal in both countries. Just that neo-Nazism exists in both countries, and we are being blind if we simply ignore that it is a problem in Ukraine and their military.
Ahhhh, the old “both sides” argument…let me drink it 8n.
Yeah, that’s the good stuff.
Now do “whataboutism”!!!
Oh, there is no doubt Russia is much worse in the fascist regard. What I mean is we are beeing ignorant if we turn a blind to neo-Nazism also beeing a problem in Ukraine.
Especially when we are considering Ukraine joining NATO in the future. We need them to get rid of those parts of the military first.
Neo-nazi’s are almost everywhere in the world. Might as well bring that up too.
There are nazis everywhere. But people buying into the initial russian propaganda, that they were invading to stop nazis in Ukraine, forget that in russian newspeak “nazi” is anyone opposing russian interests. We laugh when they talk about “Jewish Nazis”, but translated from russian newspeak this is not as contradictory.
so is russia going to invade itself to deal with nazis
