Do you have any idea how insufferable you are being in this thread? Since you seem clueless, I’m here to let you know - it’s bad. Real bad. After seeing interactions like this, I increasingly understand why the rest of the world hates us…

I didn’t say it was impossible, just unlikely. We will have to agree to disagree on this point, but I don’t fit into either of the categories you describe. Obama had the benefit of being a man to offset the fact that he was a minority. Woman + minority is just a bigger challenge than it should be. I don’t like it. It’s just reality these days.

I also think you are ignoring the fact that the world has changed dramatically since 07/08. I would argue that in many ways, it was a more sane and rational time than it is today. Obama broke the republican party and radicalized much it’s base into what we are seeing today. The US is also much older today than it was then, and that generation definitely hasn’t kept up with the times. If anything, they all fear the current pace of change and are grasping for any mechanism they can find to slow it down. Old white men are their happy place and I don’t see that changing for the short remainder of their lives.

For the record - I would vote for AOC in a heart beat, if for no other reason than she actually cares about the people she serves. I would prefer someone with more executive experience for a whole host of reasons, but she would be better than any candidate republicans put forward. Honestly, all I really want is a social liberal and fiscal conservative. Spend responsibly and stay out of our day-to-day lives as much as possible. I don’t know where those candidates went, but I would love to see them make a resurgence in the Democratic party.

More boomers need to die or we need to get rid of the electoral college to make this possible. Boomers grew up in a very different world and are a large reason that this country can’t move forward in any meaningful way. Demographically, there are a lot of them and they vote at very high rates. Until they move on, or we stop allowing presidential elections to be decided by a handful of swing states/districts, we are going to be stuck in this ridiculous quagmire. Women/minorities will continue to fight an unnecessarily difficult uphill battle on the national stage.

You can literally go to their website, run a search yourself and see that they are clearly selling the claimed dual purpose components/equipment on their website. It’s all in the article and can be independently verified in less than five minutes. I guarantee that the Ukranian government and their intelligence partners have additional information beyond what is publicly available. If they are being sold in their website, where do you think they are being stored? Use your brain and some critical thought, if you are even capable.

You’re either a bad faith actor or too dumb to exercise your brain for even brief periods. Probably both. Go peddle your bullshit elsewhere. Thanks.

Naive and factually incorrect. What a combo. There are clear exceptions for dual-use targets under the Geneva convention, such as a logistics warehouse being used to supply the military with their equipment. There is also a commonly accepted concept of “reciprocal force” or “self-defense” in pretty much any reasonable moral code in this world. No one expects people to just keep getting punched in the face and sit there quietly without responding in kind. This type of attack would definitely qualify considering what Russia has been doing to Ukraine for the last 4-years.

Ukraine is at least trying to follow international law and be as good faith of an actor as they can in war time. Russia has lit the Geneva convention on fire and pissed in all of our faces for more than a decade, but sure, they are equally abhorrent parties in your eyes. Get a grip and learn some nuance. The world is complex and full of gray area. Don’t be such a simpleton.

They literally address it in the article. Military hardware and drone components were readily available on the website even after the attacks. What else do you want to see?

Besides, it’s not like Russia has given a shit about war crimes since they invaded. They commit them daily. Acting like Ukraine should be following the rules that Russia has torn to shreds for 4-years is…idiotic.

Not sure if your posts are bad faith/intentional misdirection or simple stupidity. Either way, it’s not a good look for you. Do better.

Good. More please.

“I don’t want, and shouldn’t have, to do/see something difficult, because of the negative implications it may have on me personally.” I think that logic is bunk.

It is cover for avoiding the hard realities of life and the world around us. It is cover be being a coward. We should confront the difficult moments, not hide from them because they will make us feel complicated emotions that we will need to process. That attitude is exactly how we ended up here a country and it should be called out for what it is - fear and weakness. Now is not a time for either, unless we want this situation to get worse.

Everyone should watch the video. Ignorance is not, in fact, bliss. That man was murdered by our government because he dared to protect his fellow citizens. No one can appreciate how egregious that killing was until they see it in living color.

Hiding from the truth because the truth is hard, is no way to live. We should all know what it happening. It will effect us all sooner than we think.

This is a fantasy land take that has no basis in reality or human history. At some point, it becomes a matter of physical well being for yourself and those around you. Telling people to just suck it up and take a beating/killing for the benefit of their “soul”…my god. Rejoin the real world buddy. It can be a scary place, but at least it’s real, not whatever bizarro world you are speaking from.

You let bullies walk on you, and they will keep doing it. The only thing that will stop them is letting them know that they will pay a real price if they keep at it. Trying to spin this “peace at all costs” worldview is intellectually dishonest and counterproductive.

Did you even read your comment before you posted it? “Let’s have another self inflicted great depression because a pedophile wants to hide his crimes, and after the government murders enough of us in the street to make us mad, then let’s do something about it.” That type of attitude is why we are in this situation. It’s honestly pathetic, but you do you.

The fact that some of you are so upset by reality is not my problem. Protest is one facet of resistance. It can’t be the only one to be effective. You can pretend we live in some lala land where fascists are going to wake up one day and realize how wrong they are because of a great post on lemmly, but I live in the real world, and that’s not how it works here.

Perhaps exercising a literal CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT (2nd Amendment - you should look it up) offends you, but did you ever consider that was it was there for a reason? There are plenty of ways to respond forcefully and non-lethally short of your ridiculous example. Sometimes the threat of force is sufficient. Sometimes it isn’t. Maybe we should explore those options as a country instead of burying our heads in the sand and pretending that it’s all going to be fine. Shutting down the conversation because it makes you uncomfortable isn’t helping anyone.

What a fantasy land you are living in.

Even if you were right about the legal system keeping up (you’re not), it is failing so hard is other ways, it doesn’t even matter. Do you remember Citizens United where the Supreme Court allowed endless and unchecked amounts of money to flood our political system accelerating us down this path of division? How about SC giving our president complete immunity to do whatever he wants in office? Or the Trump appointed judge that intentionally derailed his prosecutions so no one could hold him accountable? Or how about the SC justice that retired early so his son could get a cushy job in return for Trump being able to appoint another justice? That legal system? Yea, it’s functioning great. A real bulwark there.

Secondly, you really believe that was this one series of peaceful protests the ONLY and driving factor behind Indian independence? Not the fact that the British had a failing empire and needed funds to rebuild after WWII? How about the fact that they had their hands full in the middle east and China at the same time? Or that they no longer had the forces, resources or will to contunue to fight the armed resistance in the country? Chalking up a remarkably complex series of events and outcomes to a single factor shows how little you understand about the world.

No one is asking anyone to bleed for anyone. I just don’t have blinders on and can see what is coming. I also have a deep enough understanding of history to understand how freedom is obtained and maintained. Sorry that offends you, but it really seems like a personal problem. Have fun with that.

Comical edit. Can’t actually respond with substance, so you try to misstate the position you cannot rebut and undermine it will a silly ad hominem attack because I haven’t used a forum for as long as you. Classic.

Let’s be clear - I wish the world didn’t work the way it does, but you can’t argue with millenia of human history. Even your own examples of idealisn were so paper thin, they couldn’t stand 5 minutes of scrutiny. I would honestly love to live in a world where reason and intellect were sufficient to win the day. Unfortunately, whenever we start down that path, it always seems to get blown up by bad actors that would rather see the world burn than lose power. Burying your head in the sand about reality doesn’t help anyone.

Bad actors are in charge. They have no respect to our current system or the people in it, and they are actively trying to destroy it for their own personal gain. We can either let them, or we can do something about. If seeing and understanding the magnitude of our current situation makes me a “larper”, so be it. I’d rather be that than whatever you are, or are pretending to be.

Good luck to you out there. Sounds like you are going to need it.

Zero. Your point?

You avoided the primary question - what’s the line them? It honestly doesn’t even really matter, since the whole premise of your post is that there is a line and that you eventually have to strike and use force. Our only disagreement is where that line actually is.

Besides, acting like Portland was some grand victory is just silly. OK - the national guard is out of Portland for the moment. They just moved on to their next target. They flood the zone and move fast so the legal system can’t keep up. The damage was already done and they just moved to sow chaos in a new location with a different militarized force. What a win.

Peaceful protests are an important tool to the fight, but these people only fear consequences. Physical, emotional, reputational or financial harm. It’s a multi-faceted fight, but that’s what it is - a fight. If they think they can best you through physical force alone, that’s what they will do. You can’t let them think that. You need a stick to respond in kind with.

Maybe you should read up on the Hindustan Socialist Republican Association or the Indian National Army. They both played major roles in Indian independence. Ghandi is a great story, but guess who he had as a counter balance? The stick.

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